City Council

City Council Meeting Minutes

January 6, 2014

1.         Roll Call

Mayor Roe called to order the Roseville City Council regular meeting at approximately 6:00 p.m. and welcomed everyone. Voting and Seating Order: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.  City Attorney Charles Bartholdi was also present.

2.         Approve Agenda

Mayor Roe noted the removal of one license approval under Consent Agenda Item 7.b entitled, -Approve 2013 and 2014 Business and Other Licenses;" for Granite City Restaurant Operations, Inc. for a Brew Pub off-Sale Intoxicating Liquor License.  Mayor Roe advised that this item would be taken under consideration under a new Action Item under agenda Item 13.d entitled, "Set Public Hearing to Consider Approving a Brew Pub Off-Sale Liquor License for Granite City located at 851 Rosedale Center #1005;" scheduled for Monday, January 27, 2014.

Councilmember McGehee requested removal of Consent Items 7.b and 7.k respectively entitled, "Approve Business & Other Licenses & Permits;" and "Authorize Seeking Donations for Various City Functions and Events."

Willmus moved, Etten seconded approval of the agenda was approved as amended.

                                                Roll Call

               Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

               Nays: None.

3.         Public Comment

Mayor Roe called for public comment by members of the audience on any non-agenda items.  No one appeared to speak.

4.         Council Communications, Reports, Announcements and Housing and Redevelopment Authority (HRA) Report

            Mayor Roe announced several upcoming events that may be of interest to Roseville residents, with additional information available at City Hall by phone, in person or on the website.  Those events included: a Human Rights Commission-sponsored community conversation on immigrant experiences in Roseville; an Open House sponsored by Metro transit related to future rapid transit bus options from Rosedale to the 46^th Street Station in Minneapolis.

Councilmember Etten thanked community residents and City staff for their attendance and interaction the recent Karen New Year celebration held at Parkview School.

Councilmember McGehee announced an upcoming fundraiser for the Ramsey County library system.

            Mayor Roe provided a progress report on the informal and formal processes, under federal law regulations, between cable franchise provider Comcast and the North Suburban Communications Commission representing its ten (10) member cities, including Roseville.

5.         Recognitions, Donations, Communications

6.         Approve Minutes

a.                        Approve Minutes of December 9, 2013 Meeting

Comments and corrections to draft minutes had been submitted by the City Council prior to tonight's meeting and those revisions were incorporated into the draft presented in the Council packet. 

McGehee moved, Laliberte seconded, approval of the minutes of the December 9, 2013, meeting as amended.

Additional Corrections:

Page 19, line 28 (Laliberte)

·         Reference to staff's recommendations should be "quick," rather than "not quick."

Page 21, Lines 17 - 19 Employee Merit Award Amount (Etten)

·         Councilmember Etten sought clarification of the amount for this program, with Interim City Manager Trudgeon clarifying that the total budget amount would be $35,000, but only $30,000 of that amount was levy funded, and $5,000 funded from non-levy funds.

Page 23-24, 2014 Final Debt Levy Vote (Laliberte)

·         Councilmember Laliberte initially expressed concern regarding her voting record on the final debt levy, but after discussion, the votes as shown on the draft minutes were confirmed by consensus.

Page 24 - 25 (Roe)

·         Mayor Roe noted that he had requested the Roll Call vote currently at the bottom of page 24 be moved to page 25, but the motion had been moved instead. The motion should be returned to its original location, and the Roll Call vote moved to the suggested location on page 25.

Closed Executive Session

·         Councilmember Laliberte noted the need to provide the makers and seconders of the motions during the Closed Executive Session part of the meeting record.  Interim City Manager Trudgeon advised that staff has the information available to insert into the final record.

                                                            Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

7.                  Approve Consent Agenda

There were no additional changes to the Consent Agenda than those previously noted.  At the request of Mayor Roe, Interim City Manager Patrick Trudgeon briefly reviewed those items being considered under the Consent Agenda.

a.                  Approve Payments

Etten moved, McGehee seconded, approval of the following claims and payments as presented.  

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

C.                 Approve General Purchases and Sale of Surplus Items Exceeding $5,000

Etten moved, McGehee seconded, approval of the submitted list of general purchases and contracts for services presented as follows:

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

Etten moved, McGehee seconded, approval of trade-in/sale of the following surplus item:

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

d.                  Approve a Resolution Designating Official Bank Depositories

Etten moved, McGehee seconded, adoption of Resolution No. 11119 (Attachment A) entitled, "Resolution on Designation of Depositories."

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

e.                   Approve a Resolution Designating Official Bank Signatories

Etten moved, McGehee seconded, adoption of Resolution No. 11120 (Attachment A) entitled, "Resolution on Designation of Bank Signatories."

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

f.                   Approve 2014 Legal Newspaper

Etten moved, McGehee seconded, designation of the Roseville Review as the legal newspaper for the City of Roseville for 2014.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

g.                  Approve 2014 City Sign Permits

Interim City Manager Trudgeon referenced a revised Attachment A to this item as a bench handout clarifying locations for Fire Department signage,

Etten moved, McGehee seconded, approval of the 2014 sign permits for City uses and promotions as listed in the sign summary dated January 6, 2014 (Revised Attachment A).

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

h.                  Approve Electrical Inspector contract

Etten moved, McGehee seconded, approval of the 2014 Service Agreement (Attachment A) with Tokle Inspections, Inc.; and authorizing the Mayor and City Manager to sign the agreement, pending review by the City Attorney.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

i.                    Designate Weed Inspector

Etten moved, McGehee seconded, appointment of the City of Roseville Community Development Department Codes Coordinator as the duly authorized and designated Assistant Weed Inspector for the calendar year 2014; pursuant to Minnesota State Statute 18.80.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

j.                    Appoint Fire Relief Association Members

Etten moved, McGehee seconded, adoption of Resolution No. 11121 (Attachment A) entitled "Resolution Designating the Mayor and City Manager as Municipal Representatives to the Firefighter Relief Association."

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

l.                    Consider Not Waiving Statutory Liability Limits for 2014

Etten moved, McGehee seconded, NOT waiving the Statutory Liability Limits for 2014.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

8.         Consider Items Removed from Consent

b.                  Approve Business Licenses & Other Licenses & Permits

At the request of Mayor Roe, Interim City manager Trudgeon briefly reviewed this item, as amended, to exclude licensing of Brew Put Off-Sale Liquor License, with a Public Hearing action scheduled later in this meeting.  Mr. Trudgeon further noted that Eureka Recycling was not included in the list of business license approvals for Recycling Hauler licenses, as they would be under separate contract with the City and therefore were not listed.

Councilmember McGehee questioned if there was a way, as part of the license process, for the City to ensure waste from Roseville was being hauled to recourse recovery facilities versus ending up in landfills. Councilmember McGehee opined that many communities made that part of their specification.  Councilmember McGehee further questioned the definition of "alternatives" and the "Blaine Transfer Facility;" listed by many haulers. Councilmember McGehee advised that her concern was to preclude any future liability for the City should a landfill later be determined to be a toxic site; and asked that this important issue be included as a future agenda item for further clarification and information gathering.

Mayor Roe clarified that a transfer station was where garbage trucks dumped their material, and the transfer facility then transferred materials to other organizations.  In his personal review of haulers, Mayor Roe advised that the designated repository was often listed as a transfer station on license applications, with no further designation.  Mayor Roe further noted that, during early discussions for organized collection options, it had been noted the only way the City could designate a final destination for materials would be if it had an organized collection system.

Interim City Manager Trudgeon advised that the item would be brought back on a future agenda for further discussion.

                                                                            McGehee moved, Etten seconded, approval of business license applications for the period of one (1) year, for the applicants as detailed in the RCA dated January 6, 2014; excluding a Brew Pub Off-Sale Intoxicating Liquor License for Granite City Restaurant Operations, Inc.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

k.                  Authorize Seeking Donations for Various City Functions and Events

At the request of Mayor Roe, Interim City manager Trudgeon briefly reviewed this item, in accordance with City Council policy and request for formal written request for donations to the City, as detailed in the RCA dated January 6, 2014.

Councilmember McGehee noted how extensive the list was; and sought clarification for the number of solicitations and frequency of those solicitations; and asked for additional information.

Mr. Trudgeon advised that some are grouped together, depending on the function or event; and most directed toward the business community as indicated.

Parks & Recreation Director Lonnie Brokke

At the request of Mayor Roe, Mr. Brokke advised that, related to Parks & Recreation functions, most are for smaller items or multiple events; with recipients contacted prior to the letter being sent, with many having expressed their interest prior to solicitation; with the typical process not involving cold calling.

McGehee moved, Etten seconded, to approve the solicitation of donations.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

9.                  General Ordinances for Adoption

10.              Presentations

a.      Ethics Commission

Mayor Roe welcomed Ethics Commissioners in attendance: Chair Margo Fjelstad; Vice Chair Benjamin Lehman; and Commissioner Matthew Becker.

Chair Fjelstad briefly reviewed two (2) specific areas of the Ethics Code recommended for amendment by the Commission, as detailed in the RCA dated January 6, 2014; both in an effort to make the code more clear and concise. 

Councilmember McGehee opined that they were good additions, and offered her support for those recommendations.

Councilmember Laliberte thanked staff for including the meeting minutes from the Ethics Commission in the RCA materials; and asked that this become a standard for Councilmembers to be aware of discussion by its citizen advisory boards in subsequent decision-making.

Laliberte moved, McGehee seconded, approval of amendments to Items B and M of Section 3 (Ethical Considerations) as presented.

With the concurrence of Ethics Vice Chair Lehman, Mayor Roe noted language under Item B "for the benefit" was intentionally not limited to financial gain.

                                                            Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

Process of Ethics Complaints

The Commission requested a discussion with the City Council related to the process for handling alleged violations detailed in Chapter 5.F of the Ethics Code; specifically concerns related to data privacy restrictions that may be present when an ethics complaint is filed and whether or not the Commission would have sufficient information to meet the standard covered by Section 3 of the Code for "clear and convincing evidence." With initial concerns expressed by City Attorney Gaughan with the Ethics Commission, the Commission questioned whether the standard of proof should be revised from current "clear and convincing evidence," to a standard using a "preponderance of evidence" instead.

Vice Chair Lehman provided the Commission's concerns, and asked for the City Council's perspective on which standard to apply when a formal complaint was forwarded to the Commission from the City Manager or City Attorney.  At the request of Councilmember Willmus, Vice Chair Lehman further clarified the Commission's rationale in seeking feedback on the current process standard before any potential future complaints came before the body, noting that the Commission had only received one complaint since its re-establishment, which had been subsequently withdrawn.

Mayor Roe recognized the Commission's concerns that, if private data was redacted and not available to the Commission, their concern was whether they would be able to determine if there was clear and convincing evidence.

At the request of Councilmember McGehee, City Attorney Bartholdi defined "clear and convincing evidence" just short of a situation being beyond reasonable doubt and the standard for a "preponderance of evidence," determined at 51% or a majority of evidence available, and not as difficult to prove as the former standard.  At the request of Councilmember McGehee, City Attorney Bartholdi advised that he was unable to provide a sufficient response tonight without further review, regarding why the Ethics Commission could not be privy to confidential or non-public data in their role, or if they would have the same standards as other citizen advisory commissions to the City Council.  Mr. Bartholdi noted that the City Council had much more latitude in what they could have access to under the State's data privacy laws.

At the request of Mayor Roe, Vice Chair Lehman advised that City Attorney Gaughan had raised the issue under current Ethics Code language; basically related to the Commission's inability to go into Closed Executive Session to consider items that may fall into data privacy areas, making them out of compliance with Open Meeting laws.

Mayor Roe noted that, while the Ethics Commission may be able to review the private data, the public could not, with the Commission required to carry out their business in public.

Councilmember McGehee recognized that this put the Commission in a difficult position and spoke in support of moving to the "preponderance of evidence" standard.

Recognizing the serious work of the Ethics Commission, Councilmember Willmus expressed his dire concern if the burden of proof standard was lowered.  Councilmember Willmus opined that the bar was intentionally set high and that it should remain high; and stated that he would not support this recommended change in standards.  Councilmember Willmus further opined that he would hate to see ethics complaints and charges being generated under the knowledge that there was less of a standard for burden of proof.  If charges come forward in the future, Councilmember Willmus opined that the higher standard should be in place and complaints fully vetted under that standard.

Mayor Roe noted that one issue was the current process with the initial investigation done by the City Manager or City Attorney depending on the type of complaint and against whom, with both of those individuals having full access to all information - private and public.  With the City Council also able to have full access to the data, but not its Ethics Commission, Mayor Roe opined that there seemed to be question raised about the process itself.  While State Statute 13.b was quite clear on the Open Meeting Law, Mayor Roe asked if the Commissioners had any thoughts on the process itself; and asked the City Attorney to further research whether or not the Commission could go into Closed Session in such instances.

Mayor Roe concurred with the comments expressed by Councilmember Willmus; opining that he also preferred to keep the standard high.

Vice Chair Lehman concurred with Mayor Roe and Councilmember Willmus; opining that he would like the Commission to be able to go into Closed Session if information under review was not public data.

While not interested in lowering the bar either, Councilmember McGehee noted the realities if the current standards didn't allow the Commission to effectively review information to maintain the integrity of the overall organization.

Mayor Roe suggested action on any revision to the standard be postponed until the City Attorney provided further research on whether or not the Commission could go into Closed Session.  If they could do so, Mayor Roe opined that this would essentially solve the problem and standards could remain as is.  Mayor Roe noted that the next step would be to refer this back to the Ethics Commission and City Attorney for their review and future update to the City Council at any time, not necessarily only during the quarterly meeting.

City Attorney Bartholdi advised that his office would be in discussion with the Ethics Commission.

Chair Fjelstad advised that the Commission had also held conversations about how best to change the process if the complaint concerned the City Manager, City Council or Mayor; opining that the current process was not as clear as it could be.  Chair Fjelstad advised that the Commission's intent was to ask Interim City Manager Trudgeon to set up another discussion about the process; and how to address dismissal or withdrawal of a case, since current language did not allow a case to be withdrawn or define a clear  process to follow if doing so.

Mayor Roe opined that this discussion made perfect sense given the withdrawal of the previous case.

Councilmember Willmus concurred, opining that it made sense at that time, and still does.

Vice Chair Lehman questioned how the City Council envisioned a process if the complaint was made against the entire City Council, since they were the ultimate decision-makers; and how the Ethics Commission should establish their discussions.

Mayor Roe responded that, as part of the process, ethics investigations against elected officials or elected bodies, subsequently enforced by the body itself, with those being held to the standard are the actual deciders of the sanctions.  Mayor Roe further noted that part of the reason may not be bad, with political ramifications serving as the backstop for the process with elected officials, individual Councilmembers or the City Manager; but supported having further discussion.

Councilmember Etten spoke in support of discussions tonight retaining more strength to the Ethics Commission with the current higher standard of proof versus a reduced standard.

Councilmember Laliberte concurred, opining that if clear and convincing evidence standards were maintained, if provided less wiggle room for the group as a whole if it reaches that level.  Having not been on the City Council that the time the previous formal complaint came forward, Councilmember Laliberte sought clarification on the final action, with Mayor Roe advising that the City Council took action to  dismiss the complaint.

At the request of Councilmember Laliberte, Vice Chair Lehman confirmed that, in hindsight, the process needed additional work from the perspective of the Commission.

Mayor Roe noted that neither body acted as a super majority regarding ethics complaints, but using a simple majority approach, the City Council needed to weigh the decision, and in a democratic process, be subject to any political consequences.  Mayor Roe expressed his interest in hearing further deliberations and recommendations from the Ethics Commission.

Vice Chair Lehman thanked Councilmembers for their input, opining that it helped the Commission out considerably.

Councilmember Laliberte thanked the Commission; noting that during her and Councilmember McGehee's Subcommittee work on citizen advisory commissions, they had found few communities having Ethics Commissions.

Councilmember McGehee concurred with those thanks; opining that this was an important commission; and expressed her personal appreciation of the Ethics tips and training provided; as well as the commitment of citizens to keep local government ethical.

11.              Public Hearings

12.              Budget Items

13.              Business Items (Action Items)

a.      Designate 2014 Acting Mayor

Mayor Roe briefly reviewed Minnesota State Statute 412.121 requiring designation of an Acting Mayor from among Councilmembers, along with the City's ordinance.  In that context Councilmember Willmus recommended appointment of Councilmember Laliberte in fulfilling that role if she was willing to do so.

Given her current schedule, Councilmember Laliberte expressed her ability in fulfilling that role and her willingness to serve.

Willmus moved, Etten seconded, designation of Councilmember Laliberte as the 2014 Acting Mayor.

                                                            Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

b.      Consider Citizen Advisory Commission Reappointments

Mayor Roe briefly reviewed the RCA and City Council policy, noting those current commissioners who are eligible for reappointment and willing to be reappointed

McGehee moved, Willmus seconded, respective reappointment of Benjamin Lehman to the Ethics Commission; Kaying Thao to the Human Rights Commission; Lee Diedrick to the Parks & Recreation Commission; James Daire and Michael Boguszewski to the Planning Commission; and Zoe Jenkins to the Police Civil Service Commission, to three (3) year terms beginning April 1, 2014 and ending March 31, 2017.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

Mayor Roe thanked those commissioners noted for their interest in reappointment.

c.             Discuss City Council Liaisons

Mayor Roe suggested individual consideration of those 2013 Council Liaisons in Attachment A to the RCA dated January 6, 2014.

NorthEAST Youth & Family Services Board, Roseville Board Member

While respecting City Councilmember thoughts on any changes, Mayor Roe noted that he was currently serving a three year term on the Board.

Housing & Redevelopment Authority (HRA)

Councilmember Willmus noted that he did not see the HRA board member listed on Attachment A and questioned the process for reaffirmation annually.

Mayor Roe clarified that, historically, the Mayor appointment/City Council ratification was made for the term of the elected office for the board member, with Councilmember Willmus currently serving in that capacity.

Councilmember Willmus advised that he was no longer interested in that appointment; however, he requested that the Mayor and City Council reconsider his appointment.

Councilmember Etten questioned the rationale of Councilmember Willmus: whether he no longer wanted to serve, or wanted to open up the context of the appointment to that body.

Councilmember Willmus responded that he was considering both; opining that it was beneficial to change that position every two years; and since he had served for two years, it provided an opportunity for someone else to step forward.

Mayor Roe provided a historical perspective, with former Mayor Klausing originally appointing a member of the City Council to serve on the HRA for the express purpose of enhancing communication between the two bodies.  Mayor Roe asked individual Councilmembers if the majority was interested in opening the appointment up to the general public and no longer having City Council representation on the HRA.

Councilmember Laliberte opined that, due to the independent nature of the HRA with its own taxing authority, a City Council representative should serve on the HRA at all times.  Councilmember Laliberte stated that removing that established precedent would not provide any level of comfort for her.

Councilmembers Etten and McGehee concurred.

Councilmember McGehee noted that she had offered to serve at the same time Councilmember Willmus was appointed to serve, and advised that she continued to retain that interest.

Councilmember Etten asked Councilmember Willmus to elaborate how he felt having a Councilmember serve on the HRA.

Councilmember Willmus advised that he had mixed feelings, concurring with Councilmembers Laliberte and McGehee's perspective with the taxing authority of the HRA, with the potential of setting up a situation where the HRA may lean on the Councilmember to see what direction they ultimately thought the City Council would go, creating some challenges since they are simply there as another voting member of the HRA, not the voice of the City Council.  As long as the individual Councilmember serving on the HRA kept that in mind, Councilmember Willmus opined that there should not be an issue.

Given those comments, and the semi-independent nature of this government body, Councilmember Etten questioned what role the City Councilmember serves, whether positive or negative.  Councilmember Etten noted that Councilmembers could watch the HRA meetings, but were not receiving a monthly report from Councilmember Willmus on the activities of the HRA, thereby no longer serving a purposeful conduit between the two bodies.

Councilmember Laliberte noted that this could be a future function rather than the current situation.

Councilmember Etten clarified that his intent was not to have a check on the HRA, nor did he support having the City Council with undue influence on HRA operations.

Councilmember Willmus, in response to the HRA's taxing authority, clarified that an often overlooked detail is that the HRA's tax levy comes to the full City Council for affirmation before it was put on the books.  While the City Council did not have control over the HRA's line item budget within the confines of the levy, Councilmember Willmus noted the advantages of the current process with quarterly updates from the HRA with the City Council, proving the full Council an update of their activities based on their annual work plan; negating the need to have the liaison report on those activities.

Councilmember McGehee concurred with Councilmember Willmus' comments; opining that she found the HRA meetings exciting, noting that she and Councilmember Etten were able to participate on one of the recent projects; and further opined that it was sufficient if the intent was to serve as a conduit.  If the City Council wanted more frequent reports, Councilmember McGehee noted that they could make that request known to the HRA; and opined that opening up the appointment to the general public versus a Councilmember may prove even more advantageous, allowing them to feel they had ultimate control of the HRA levy.

Councilmember Laliberte expressed her appreciation for the regular HRA updates, and opined that she did not want to change that process; and reiterated her personal preference to have a City Council elected representative serving on the HRA.

Mayor Roe requested a majority preference expressed by the body: whether to continue the City Council appointment process or open it to the general public, advertised as other citizen advisory commission openings are done.

Councilmember Laliberte expressed her interest in serving on the HRA if the City Council appointment process continued.

At the request of Councilmember McGehee, Councilmember Willmus confirmed that the City Councilmember is a full-fledged voting member of the HRA.

Councilmember McGehee expressed interest in opening the position to the public.

Councilmember Etten also expressed interest in serving on the HRA if the appointment continued from the City Council.

Mayor Roe noted that this decision did not need to be made during this Council liaison discussion; but could come back at a future meeting to determine the process and whether to open it to the general public or retain the City Council appointment.

At the request of Councilmember Laliberte, Councilmember Etten expressed his willingness to consider either option; however, if the body decided to keep the current process in place, he would be interested in seeing the work done by the HRA and becoming part of that process.

Laliberte moved, Willmus seconded, that the HRA appointment remain as is, remaining a City Council member appointment by the Mayor and ratification by the City Council.

Based on the interest expressed by three members of the City Council in serving in that capacity, Mayor Roe opined that this seemed a reasonable motion to make.

Councilmember McGehee opined that the City Council already had sufficient say on what occurred with the HRA; and questioned the difference one vote made and whether an elected official served on the HRA or a member of the public.  When the HRA had a major decision to make on their levy and taxing, Councilmember McGehee noted that they came to the City Council for advice anyway, creating considerable influence related to policy and decision-making.  Given the predominantly citizen make-up of the HRA, Councilmember McGehee opined that they do an excellent job; and she could see no reason not to appoint a member of the public to the HRA.

Councilmember Willmus again clarified that the only action the City Council had was approval of the levy amount, but that the HRA budget and individual budget line items were at the HRA's discretion.  Under those circumstances, Councilmember Willmus understood the rationale in having a City Council elected official in that role as a member of the HRA.

At the request of Councilmember Etten, Councilmember Willmus responded that he did not feel he had any extra influence in HRA decisions due to his dual role as a Councilmember.  Therefore, Councilmember Etten questioned how much weight the elected official versus private citizen has; and how much additional influence or control would that person carry on behalf of Roseville citizens.

Councilmember Laliberte clarified that her point was not to imply that their vote had any more weight; but noted that when this taxing authority was established as an independent group, it was decided to include a Councilmember as one of those members; clarifying that their vote was not worth more than any other member, but questioned why the City Council would want to shirk that responsibility already established.

Councilmember McGehee clarified her position, opining that it would not be shirking responsibility, but simply allowing citizens another seat at the table as a vital part of local government.  If the City Council member on the HRA is nothing more than another citizen voice, a private citizen should be able to fill that role just as well.

From an historical context, Mayor Roe noted that the HRA was originally established with all seven seats made up of citizen members.  However, after 2-3 years of its operation and under the jurisdiction of former Mayor Klausing, when a vacancy came up, it was decided to appoint a City Councilmember as one member of the HRA, a tradition that continues to-date.

Mayor Roe spoke in opposition to this motion to require a City Council representative to the HRA, opining that he agreed with the comments in how a better working relationship had been established between the HRA and City Council since the initial decision was made and intent in appointing a Councilmember to serve at that time due to the perception that there was not a consistently good working relationship and a method to facilitate communications was needed.  However, at this point, Mayor Roe opined that having citizens makes more sense and he would support going that route.  Mayor Roe noted that a change could again be made when the next vacancy occurred on the HRA to move back to a City Council appointment if this method proved ineffective.

                                                            Roll Call

                        Ayes: Willmus and Laliberte.

                        Nays: McGehee; Etten; and Roe.

                        Motion failed.

Councilmember Willmus noted that Councilmembers are also citizens and nothing prohibited them from applying to serve on the HRA.

Given the results of this action, Mayor Roe directed staff to advertise the HRA vacancy with the remaining Commission vacancies; and asked that Councilmember Willmus delay his departure from serving on the HRA until the end of March to coincide with those other citizen advisory commission vacancies.

In response, Councilmember Willmus advised that he would provide further input to Mayor Roe on that matter.

North Suburban Communications Commission

Councilmember McGehee noted that Mayor Roe had previously expressed his lack of interest in continuing to serve in this capacity; and expressed her interest in it, or in serving as an alternate to get up to speed, a function she was already following to-date.

Mayor Roe noted that this was true; however, he noted that the body was in the process of negotiations and that was a consideration that should enter into it.  Given Councilmember McGehee's interest in serving as an alternate to the NSCC, and no appointment of Interim City Manager Trudgeon after former City Manager Malinen's service as an alternate and lack of interest in serving as an alternate, Mayor Roe suggested a vote by the City Council to appoint an alternate to the NSCC.

Interim City Manager Trudgeon noted that he remained in the loop of information from a staff level.

Etten moved, Willmus seconded appointment of Mayor Roe as the Liaison and Councilmember McGehee as the alternate to the NSCC for 2014.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

NorthEAST Youth & Family Services Board

Laliberte moved, Etten seconded, to leave Mayor Roe in the liaison position for the NYFS for 2014.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

Ramsey County League of Local Governments (RCCLG)

If so desired by the City Council majority, Councilmember Laliberte expressed her interest in continuing to serve as a liaison to this body.

Willmus moved, Etten seconded, retaining Councilmember Laliberte, with Councilmember McGehee as alternate, to serve on the RCCLG for 2014.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

Snelling Avenue Bus Rapid Transit Citizen Advisory Committee

McGehee moved, Willmus seconded, reappointment of Councilmember Laliberte to serve on this body.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

Council Standing Subcommittees

City Manager Performance Review

Councilmember Etten expressed his interest in continuing to serve on this subcommittee.

McGehee moved, Laliberte seconded, to reappointment Councilmembers Etten and Willmus to serve on this subcommittee.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

Finance & Budget

Councilmember Etten advised that he continued to be interested in serving; however, as he brought up previously, he wondered if this should continue as a City Council Subcommittee or become a Citizen Advisory Commission.

Councilmembers agreed that more discussion was needed before making that decision; and by consensus TABLED action.

Council Ad-Hoc Subcommittees

Commissions, Review Ad-Hoc Subcommittees

Councilmember Etten suggested that this subcommittee would no longer be needed, depending on the outcome of tonight's discussion specific to this issue; and opined that if needed, it could be re-established at a later date.

By consensus, Councilmembers agreed that, this subcommittee would continue in its present membership until its work was completed.

Other Activities - Information only - not Council-designated

Councilmember McGehee suggested reappointment as a slate.

Mayor Roe interrupted that potential motion by clarifying that the slate was no longer current, with the former City Manager serving on the LMC Policy Committee for Improving Fiscal Futures, with Mayor Roe moving into that role.  Mayor Roe noted that any Councilmember in MN can serve on any of these bodies; however, Open Meeting laws would need to be observed if a Council quorum was in attendance at one time.  Mayor Roe suggested that Councilmembers take their involvement under advisement; clarifying that they were more for information purposes, and suggested they all consider attending as applicable.

Councilmember McGehee expressed her interest in ensuring the City Manager was involved in and provided adequate representation for Roseville in the League of MN Cities and Metro Cities organizations.

Mayor Roe agreed with that intent; however, he cautioned that required involvement not be onerous for the City Manager, noting that each organization had four subcommittees.

Councilmember Etten agreed that the City Manager needed to be involved in local and area organizations (e.g. Rotary) and had included that request to the Interim City Manager as part of the subcommittee's request and as part of his professional responsibilities.

Mayor Roe also asked Councilmembers to stay alert and keep involved in these organizations and report back as an individual when attending any of these informational opportunities.

Informal Ad-Hoc Communications Committee

Councilmember Laliberte suggested reappointment or re-establishing a subcommittee to proceed with these communication efforts more formally over the next year to get things evolved and meet the goals of the City Council.

Mayor Roe clarified that the current group was never formally appointed by the City Council but had simply evolved.

Councilmember Laliberte expressed interest in continuing to work on those efforts.

Councilmember Willmus opined that the work may be picking up again; and further opined that it made sense to have a City Council representative as part of that group.

Councilmember McGehee stated that she was prepared to give the Interim City Manager and the City's new Communications Director an opportunity to work together and make proposals, with both of them being very aware of the City Council's desires and goals; but to allow them a chance before interjecting themselves into the process.

Councilmember Willmus noted that the website redesign should be part of that; and opined that it wouldn't hurt to have a Councilmember as part of that process.

Mayor Roe opined that he saw no need for an ad-hoc committee, as it was initially created, and suggested it may be more prudent to have the City Council look at each component as the efforts progressed.

Interim City Manager Trudgeon advised that the community survey and marketing/branding components would be coming to the City Council in the near future; and asked that staff be allowed 4-6 weeks to get various components before the City Council and discuss broader communication concepts.  If a more distinct ad-hoc committee became an evident need at that time, Mr. Trudgeon suggested that it could be appointed at that time.

From his perspective, Mayor Roe recognized Councilmember Laliberte's expertise in this area; and suggested that she, along with other individual Councilmembers, continue to provide feedback through the City Manager and Communications Director and during City Council discussions.  However, Mayor Roe stated that he did not see a need for a formal subcommittee or ad-hoc committee.

d.      Set Public Hearing to Consider Approving a Brew Put Off-Sale Liquor License for Granite City located at 851 Rosedale Center #1005

Laliberte moved, Etten seconded, setting a public hearing for January 27, 2014 to consider approving/denying the requested liquor license for calendar year 2014.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

Councilmember McGehee requested staff to provide additional information at the public hearing that defined a Brew Pub and licenses currently held by Roseville.

14.              Business Items - Presentations/Discussions

a.      Discuss City Council Rules and Procedure

Councilmember McGehee requested adding a process for a Councilmember to add something to the agenda if received by staff before noon on Wednesday by polling Councilmembers electronically to include that item in the meeting and packet.

Mayor Roe, with concurrence by City Attorney Bartholdi, advised that this would create considerable Open Meeting Law violation issues by polling Councilmembers outside a public meeting.

Councilmember Willmus stated that there was already a process in place for such an instance under the City Council's current Rules and Procedures.

Councilmember Laliberte suggested that the City Council include the Pledge of Allegiance at the beginning of Councilmembers as a way to remember the democratic process that put them in office as elected officials.

            Laliberte moved, Roe seconded, including the Pledge of Allegiance as Agenda Item 3 to the City Council Rules and Procedures.

            Discussion included peer community practices; a history of if and when Roseville did so; and how much of a role tradition played in the practice.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte and Roe.

                        Nays: Etten; Willmus: McGehee.

                        Motion failed.

b.      Discuss City Commissions Subcommittee Report

Advisory Commission Subcommittee members Laliberte and McGehee each provided a bench handout with their differing recommendations,

At the request of Mayor Roe, Councilmember Laliberte served as initial spokesperson for the subcommittee and reviewed existing or suggested new commissions individually.  Councilmember Laliberte advised that the proposed uniform commission code precipitated this study; and referenced the survey taken of current commission members.  Councilmember Laliberte advised that the subcommittee had no recommendation of which version of the proposed uniform commission code was preferable, and therefore had not included it as part of their overall considerations and recommendations; and suggested that if the City Council remained interested in a uniform code, they direct staff to bring back a more simplified version to initiate those subsequent discussions.

Councilmember McGehee concurred in general with those comments; opining that the intent was to seek as much community involvement as possible.  The only issue Councilmember McGehee thought worth discussion was not having two people from the same household serve on an advisory commission.

Councilmember McGehee opined that the scope of duties for the Ethics Commission was satisfied by the previous discussion tonight; leaving the only remaining difference of any significance on her handout that of adding an additional two members to the PWETC Commission.

Councilmember McGehee noted that Councilmember Laliberte suggested the addition of two new advisory commissions':  Community Engagement and Finance.  Councilmember McGehee noted her awareness of something coming forward about a senior commission.  However, Councilmember McGehee noted that her personal opinion was that it took considerable staff time to run and serve meetings, and suggested careful consideration of the benefits of adding more commissions before seeking feedback from Department Heads as applicable, as well as the Interim City Manager.

Councilmember Laliberte suggested a simplified uniform code with an attendance standard across the board, rather than selective, and other basic functions that could be consistently applied.

Ethics

Councilmember Laliberte noted her recommendations for current membership and meeting frequency; opining that while the group may have been lost in their scope of duties and their importance, tonight's discussion should have validated their value to the community and organization.

Councilmember Etten stated that his recommendation would be to combine the Ethics and Human Rights Commissions and create a separate Community Engagement Commission,

Related to the uniform code, Councilmember Willmus sought to clarify the recommendation of the subcommittee, whether to amend the existing governing codes for respective commissions, or develop a whole new code to govern them.  

Councilmember Laliberte noted that this open for discussion.

Councilmember Willmus sought clarification from Councilmember McGehee and her concerns with two members from an individual household serving on an advisory commission.

Councilmember McGehee responded that the original goal was to have as many voices and opportunities from the community as possible, and unless there was a shortage of applicants, creating a need to consider more than one person per household, the community and  advisory commission would be better served with diversification.

Councilmember Willmus noted that just because they were of the same household, they were necessarily of the same mindset on issues.

Councilmember McGehee responded that it did create the issue of allowing more private discussions.

Mayor Roe noted that the initial objective of a uniform code was to make sure the process and standards for  advisory commissions were consistent  noting for example that some but not all current ordinances allowed the City Council the right to remove members if so indicated.  To the extent those standards could be made consistent, within their current context or document, Mayor Roe spoke in support of achieving such consistency, as well as making their Rules of Procedure consistent with those of the City Council.  Mayor Roe opined that it made sense to allow each advisory commission to establish their own procedures and processes applicable to their body, provided they are streamlined and not bogged down by their process.

Regarding combining the Ethics and Human Rights Commissions, Mayor Roe questioned how prudent that would be, and suggested further consideration of that, questioning how those different bodies could mesh with their particular charges.

Ethics

Councilmember Etten advised that he was approximately 90% convinced the Ethics and HRC Commissions should be combined.

Councilmember Willmus responded that he was only 10% convinced they should be combined, and concurred with Mayor Roe on the difference in their respective charges, questioning the nexus there.

In response to Councilmember Etten, Councilmember Laliberte noted the very different charges of the two bodies; and rather suggested if a Community Engagement Commission moved out of the HRC as a task force, the HRC would then need a period of time to get back to their core mission without being combined with yet another commission.  Councilmember Laliberte respectfully asked that such a combination not be considered at this time.

Councilmember McGehee concurred with Councilmember Laliberte.

Councilmember Etten clarified that he deeply believed in the charge of the HRC; and seriously took into consideration the comments of his colleagues, and would not advocate such at combination at this time.

Ethics

Councilmember Laliberte reviewed the apparent consensus to leave everything as is at this time for their membership and meeting frequency.

Discussion included the ability for the Commission to meet more frequently at their discretion, with quarterly meetings being the proposed minimum.

Mayor Roe advised that if more clarification was needed for their charge that would need to be addressed in the near future.

Broader Discussion

Mayor Roe suggested that staff ensure that incoming members to an  advisory commission be guided and oriented as to the role of the advisory commission, applicable codes and their interaction with the overall organization, suggesting that this orientation be done by another member of the  advisory commission beyond the Chairperson.

Councilmember Etten concurred with Mayor Roe's comments; noting the need to break down information for each  advisory commission with clear links for educational opportunities or key aspects of information needed to prepare them to serve.

Councilmember Laliberte concurred that new members should receive necessary orientation.

Interim City Manager Trudgeon advised that most members are receiving orientation; however he wasn't sure that it was all at the same level.  Mr. Trudgeon noted the need to emphasize uniformity or consistency across the board; and suggested a group discussion at the staff level with other departments to review a minimum level for the operation.

Councilmember Etten noted the need to have clear definitions for acronyms and jargon; and key aspects explained in average layman's terms.

Mayor Roe suggested this may be a role for the Communications Department to work with departments on consistent educational materials in layperson language.

Councilmember Laliberte spoke in support of Mayor Roe's suggestion; and further spoke to the need for an automatic touch point for the advisory commission Chair to follow-up with new members beyond the initial data dump to keep them from feeling overwhelmed.

Mayor Roe suggested a mentoring arrangement for a new member with a more senior member of an advisory commission, outside the role of the Chairperson.

Councilmember McGehee opined that some mentoring happened automatically, with some advisory commission's working very well indicating their desire to work together.

Human Rights Commission (HRC)

Councilmember Laliberte noted that she and Councilmember McGehee had differences in their recommendations; but spoke in her personal support of breaking the Civic Engagement Task Force out by creating a separate Community Engagement advisory commission.

Councilmember McGehee opined that the task force proposal is the job for the Interim City Manager and Communications Director to come forward with their proposals to implement recommendations of the task force; opining that she did not see the need for a advisory commission.

Councilmember Laliberte noted that the Task Force recommended that it become a commission; and offered her support of their recommendation.

Community/Civic Engagement

Councilmember Willmus concurred that it should be a standalone commission as recommended by the task force; with its own individual charge and unique scope.  Councilmember Willmus opined that it was not the role of the City Council step back and wait for staff to make a determination and offer direction to the City Council; but rather for the City Council to direct staff how to proceed in the best interest of the community.  Councilmember Willmus reiterated his support for a standalone Community Engagement advisory commission.

Councilmember Etten spoke in support of a separate commission.

Mayor Roe spoke in support of a standalone commission, specifically to meet the needs of newcomers to the community.  However, Mayor Roe noted that this did not preclude partnering and developing a synergy among other   advisory commission's and a Community Engagement advisory commission.  Mayor Roe opined that civic engagement in itself indicated citizen ownership and endorsement of the process, providing a group of stewards of the community visioning process.  Mayor Roe noted that the community visioning process would need updated in the near future; and suggested charging that group with that process, with part of their charge being to ensure responsible stewards of the vision and language of the vision and process moving forward.

HRC

Regarding the HRC retaining the civic engagement focus, Mayor Roe opined that to give them both goals would be too much.

Councilmembers Willmus and Etten spoke in support of a separate Community Engagement advisory commission and HRC.

Public Comment

Gary Grefenberg, 91 Mid Oaks Lane

As Co-Chair of the current Civic Engagement Task Force as a subcommittee under the HRC, and after eighteen months of trying to do both, Mr. Grefenberg opined that it was impossible; and stated that he refused to do both.  Mr. Grefenberg referenced the little support received by the task force from staff at this time and the challenges that created; and recommended that the Administration Department make staff available to take minutes and offer other support to the group.  Mr. Grefenberg further opined that the Civic Engagement Task Force worked on most things primarily outside the HRC, and he saw no value in continued reporting to the HRC before directly to the City Council.  Mr. Grefenberg further opined that staffing civic engagement in a department and with designated staff was critically necessary to provide it with status, and a clear charge with the ability to respond to the City Council as a separate advisory commission.  Mr. Grefenberg referenced some of the issues that the HRC needed to address, and assured Councilmembers that they would have sufficient work to do without the civic engagement aspect. 

Mr. Grefenberg expressed his appreciation with the current collaboration he was seeing between the HRC, Civic Engagement Task Force and staff; and suggested civic engagement assist communications, but not be left up to communications staff alone.  Mr. Grefenberg stated that the City was now at a new beginning with a new Communications Director in place, and expressed his appreciation at being asked by the Director for his suggestions; opining that this was the type of relationship needed.  For the success of the website, Mr. Grefenberg opined that it would be important to have the Civic Engagement advisory commission in place soon to work with staff.

Mr. Grefenberg noted that one thing lost in the process, when the HRC agreed with the recommendation of the Civic Engagement Task Force as a separate commission; was the need for one person from each of the standing commissions to be a member in recognition that the front line was the commission.  During the task force process, Mr. Grefenberg noted that the genius was the availability of those advisory commission members to compare notes.  Mr. Grefenberg referenced some of the recommendations of the task force previously provided in writing to the City Council related to absences, meeting procedures and rules of order, and creation of a Finance advisory commission for transparency purposes, and alerting advisory commission Chairs of pending City Council action allowing them to provide a recommendation based on their expertise. 

Mr. Grefenberg stated that he had more hope with the change in administration that the process could be more effective.  Mr. Grefenberg strongly suggested creating a Community Engagement advisory commission sooner rather than later to take advantage of the process and input for development of a new website.  Mr. Grefenberg noted that half of the recommendations from the Civic Engagement Task Force dealt with community; and staff could learn from them how best to communicate with residents.  Mr. Grefenberg encouraged the City Council to follow through on the Task Force's recommendations, especially staff notifying Commission Chairs of pending City Council discussions and actions.

Civic Engagement/HRC

Discussion continued on the HRC annual essay contest; outreach efforts to private schools located within Roseville to participate; and the need to refocus on the traditional role of the HRC.

Councilmember Laliberte questioned, if civic engagement was considered as a standalone advisory commission, should the HRC continue in size and frequency of meetings.

Councilmember Willmus opined that there should be no changes made at this time.

Councilmember Etten opined that the HRC had plenty to do before communication became part of their charge.

Councilmember McGehee opined that she didn't object to civic engagement; however, she didn't think the advisory commission should be any larger than seven members, which created an issue if each standing advisory commission was represented.  Councilmember McGehee opined that her main concern was with the development of the website in particular and recognizing that the entire community was not computer savvy, with an entire portion of the population needing communication options beyond the website. Councilmember McGehee stated that she could support a Community Engagement advisory commission of seven members meeting monthly, with input from the Communications Director or Mr. Trudgeon as to staff involvement.

Councilmember Etten questioned if a youth commissioner should also be considered for this advisory commission; and suggested a membership of seven plus 1 youth (not three) may be something to consider initially.

Councilmember McGehee spoke in support of one youth member for the Civic Engagement advisory commission.

Councilmember Laliberte opined that she continued to struggle with the member count and suggestion from the HRC to engage existing commissions, with them taking up the majority of the available member slots versus the general public, unless it grew larger.  Councilmember Laliberte opined that given the amount of work to be accomplished, perhaps large was prudent.

Councilmember Willmus spoke in support of bringing individuals from other advisory commission's especially those originally having worked with the task force and as a starting point, then rolling them off the advisory commission similar to other advisory commissions.  Councilmember Willmus advised that he wasn't too concerned about the size of the group; but thought it much more important to get them up to speed fairly rapidly.

Discussion ensued regarding rotating membership from advisory commission members to the community at large.

Mayor Roe suggested that membership be opened to anyone wishing to apply; making it clear that it was also open to  advisory commission commissioners across the board.  Mayor Roe noted that the City Council would use a similar process to ensure rotations were done with 1, 2 and 3 year appointments, using the standard application, interview and appointment process.

Councilmember McGehee noted the need to address external and internal information generated and available data on the website based on those different needs.

            Laliberte moved, Etten seconded, creation of a standalone Community Engagement advisory commission consisting of seven (7) commissioners and one youth commissioner.  Mayor Roe offered a friendly amendment, accepted by the maker and seconder of the motion, to charge the Commission Subcommittee of Councilmembers Laliberte and McGehee to work with staff in developing the charge and process.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

            It was the consensus of the City Council to leave the HRC and Parks & Recreation CAS's as is.

            With Council consensus, Councilmember Laliberte noted that the Planning and Police Civil Service Commissions were mandated and dictated by State Statute and should remain as is.

            Public Works, Environment & Transportation Commission (PWETC)

            Councilmember Laliberte noted the recommendation of the subcommittee to increase membership in the PWETC to seven (7) members.

            Mayor Roe and Councilmembers Willmus and Roe spoke in support of expanding the PWETC from seven to nine members, allowing them the ability to perform more subcommittee work.

            Councilmember Laliberte noted that in their review of peer communities, the subcommittee found that most had a separate environment and transportation advisory commission.  Councilmember Laliberte concurred that this advisory commission was doing some heavy lifting and more members would allow more subcommittees for specific areas of interest.

            McGehee moved, Etten seconded, to increase membership in the PWETC from five to seven members; to retain meeting frequency; and to fill additional empty seats as applicants became available.

                                                            Roll Call

                        Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

                        Nays: None.

            Mayor Roe noted that the ordinance creating the PWETC would need to be revised accordingly; with Council consensus that it be done at an upcoming regular City Council meeting as a housekeeping item.

New Suggested  Advisory Commission

            Finance Commission

            Councilmember Laliberte referenced her personal recommendations to create this advisory commission.

            Councilmember Willmus noted that he had long advocated for a Finance Committee to review the budget process and priority-setting for Roseville.  If an Advisory Commission was created, Councilmember Willmus suggested it include a minority at least of members holding some professional license or certification in the financial field to make the Advisory Commission more effective.  Councilmember Willmus noted the differences in budgetary practices and in the public and private areas.  Councilmember Willmus spoke in support of those discussions occurring with the City's Finance Director at an Advisory Commission level, helping to vet policies and priorities as they come to the City Council for ultimate action.  Councilmember Willmus spoke in support of a Finance Advisory Commission. Councilmember Etten concurred with the recommendations of Councilmembers Laliberte and Willmus; opining that it provided a great way to bring more ideas into the budget process and make it more open, including ways to make budget documents more user-friendly for the public and allow them to understand and digest the information and see where their tax dollars were going.  While recognizing that someone with professional experience may be a wise addition to the advisory commission, Councilmember Etten questioned if that should be a requirement for membership, even though someone with those credentials would be a tremendous asset.

            Councilmember Willmus clarified that his intent was not for all members to have that background, but at least having a minority with that expertise would prove advantageous.

            Councilmember Etten cautioned that it may put the City Council in  a corner with too few applicants if that were a requirement, while recognizing that those having such credentials could certainly receive additional considerations as applicants came forward.

            Councilmember McGehee concurred that it may become a non-useful advisory commission without some financial professionalism; and suggested that their charter include vetting any future developments coming before the City; specifically how it impacts the City's tax structure going forward.

            Mayor Roe suggested starting with small, but not baby steps, and begins with an ad-hoc committee to initially look at documentation, prioritization and the process and make a recommendation to the City Council.  If they feel there is a need to recommend a standalone advisory commission for Finance, they could make that recommendation to the City Council.  However, if it was a simple solution to get the processes right, Mayor Roe opined that there would be nothing left for them to do.  Mayor Roe also expressed his concern with timing issues if development projects were vetted through a advisory commission, and would need to further consider that as part of the charge. 

Councilmember Laliberte sought consensus on the number of members, noting that most state boards required someone included that had some financial credentials.

Mayor Roe noted language could also provide some flexibility, such as "shall" versus "should," noting the additional perspective needed for private versus public financing.

            Councilmember Willmus opined that this advisory commission would have ample work load going forward as a standing committee, not just ad-hoc; noting that the City Council had already taken the ad-hoc step over the past year with the budget/finance subcommittee, which hadn't been done in the past.  Councilmember Willmus stated that he was more comfortable moving forward at this time to create a standalone commission, and remained open to 5 or 7 members, but to take that step soon.

            Councilmember McGehee spoke in support of Mayor Roe's suggestion to take small steps with an ad-hoc committee first, similar to the civic engagement task force, to determine the more effective and beneficial way to move forward.  Councilmember McGehee noted that there were people in the community willing to serve on such a task force or short-term committee, but not in serving long-term; opining that this might provide better ideas and applicants initially and get feedback in the short-term.

            Councilmember Laliberte opined that she had perceived this as an ad-hoc committee similar to that of the subcommittee of Councilmembers McGehee and Etten in their initial attempts to look at current reporting documents.

            Laliberte moved, Willmus seconded, authorizing the Commission Subcommittee to work with Interim City Manager Trudgeon to create an ordinance for creation of a Finance Commission.

            Mayor Roe spoke in opposition to an advisory commission versus ad-hoc committee to first determine what was necessary to improve the current process; and then let them determine if a standing commission was necessary.

                                                Roll Call

                        Ayes:. Laliberte; Willmus; and Etten.

                        Nays: McGehee and Roe

                        Motion carried.

            Councilmember Laliberte thanked those advisory commission members for their responses to the subcommittee survey and asked that individual Councilmembers review their comments.

            Councilmember Willmus thanked Councilmembers Laliberte and McGehee for serving on this subcommittee, and for all their work, even with the resulting difference of opinion.  Councilmember Willmus opined that it was a welcome part of the process and expressed his appreciation in moving the City Council forward to this point.

            Further discussion ensued regarding general recommendation of the subcommittee regarding including  advisory commission meeting minutes in the first City Council meeting packet of the month or in a timely fashion (e.g. within a week of the   advisory commission meeting) to allow inclusion of them in the City Council deliberations and to send a positive message to advisory commissions.  Additional recommendations included an exit interview for outgoing advisory commission commissioners as a learning process.

            Mayor Roe suggested providing guidance to staff to follow-through on those recommendations; and as necessary drafting amendments to existing codes, with the subcommittee working with staff in accomplishing that goal.

            Mr. Trudgeon also noted previous direction to staff to simplify the uniformity where indicated and return those recommendations to the City Council for future reference.

            Mayor Roe offered his appreciation to the subcommittee for their efforts and their thoughtful recommendations.

15.              City Manager Future Agenda Review

 Interim City Manager Trudgeon reviewed upcoming agenda items.

16.              Councilmember-Initiated Items for Future Meetings

Councilmember McGehee requested a discussion on garbage hauling as noted earlier in tonight's discussion.

Mayor Roe offered Interim City Manager Trudgeon the option to have his evaluation in open or closed session; with Mr. Trudgeon's response that he wanted it to be held in Closed Session.

Closed Executive Session

Mayor Roe and City Attorney Bartholdi referenced State Statutes, Section ad.d.05 (3.a) permitting City Council meetings to be closed in order to discuss certain matters relating to labor relations and personnel issues.

Willmus moved, Etten seconded, adjourning to Closed Executive Session for the periodic performance evaluation of Interim City Manager Patrick Trudgeon discussion at approximately 8:55 p.m.

                                                Roll Call

Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

Nays: None.

McGehee moved, Laliberte seconded, to recess the closed session at approximately 9:58 P.M. and return to open session for the purpose of a motion to extend the meeting past the curfew.

                                                Roll Call

Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

Nays: None.

Willmus moved, Etten seconded, to extend the meeting by 15 minutes.

                                                Roll Call

Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

Nays: None.

Laliberte moved, McGehee seconded, to return to closed executive session to continue the Interim City Manager performance evaluation.

                                                Roll Call

Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

Nays: None.

McGehee moved, Willmus seconded, to recess the closed session at approximately 10:15 P.M. and return to open session for the purposes of a motion to extend the meeting past the curfew.

                                                Roll Call

Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

Nays: None.

McGehee moved, Etten seconded, to extend the meeting by another 15 minutes.

                                                Roll Call

Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

Nays: None.

Laliberte moved, Etten seconded, to return to closed executive session to continue the Interim City manager performance evaluation.

                                                Roll Call

Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

Nays: None.

Etten moved, Laliberte seconded, to adjourn the closed executive session and return to open session.

                                                Roll Call

Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee; Willmus; Etten; and Roe.

Nays: None.

17.       Adjourn

Willmus moved, Laliberte seconded, to adjourn the meeting at approximately 10:28 p.m.

Roll Call

Ayes: Laliberte; McGehee, Willmus; Etten and Roe

Nays: None